Report 272
Report #272 Skillset: Axelord Skill: Knockdown Org: Ebonguard Status: Completed Oct 2009 Furies' Decision: Knockdown will give balance loss. Problem: Knockdown (both Axelord and Bonecrusher versions) have an issue in that they have a very lengthy stun time. This stun time used to be smaller, but was extended in the past by Envoys so that the Axelord could knock someone down on one combo and still have them prone on the second combo (otherwise, the knockdown serves no purpose whatsoever, if they're standing up again before you can take advantage of it). The problem is that stun is a massively debilitating affect which does far more than just prevent standing. It also prevents sipping, sparkling, reading scrolls, or curing / doing anything at all. This leads to the so-called "double tap" where you knockdown someone and then whack them somewhere else, doing 2x the damage, wounding, and afflictions (because you're knocking through 2 full attack combos before they are even able to cure). This leads to the "stun train" effect (knockdown someone, whack them somewhere else, by the time you have balance back their stun immunity has already worn off and you're able to just do it again). This is especially powerful when combined with a bonecrusher's crush (bypass parry/stance) on the leg, every other combo. 0 R: 0 Solution #1: Replace the stun effect with another effect that prevents standing for the same amount of time (acts like stun in terms of being completely uncureable, so it's not another "affliction" that has to be coded into a system's curing capability), but wears off in the same time as the current stun-duration for this ability, and which also has a similar "immunity" period at the end (so you can't just keep someone from standing up permanently by triggering them standing up to knockdown again). Player Comments: ---on 9/30 @ 19:30 writes: Sounds good and well needed. I support ---on 10/2 @ 01:59 writes: Sounds good. I support this change ---on 10/2 @ 14:24 writes: Agree with this report. ---on 10/2 @ 20:27 writes: So it would be similar in both mechanic and purpose to earache, but for knockdown? That makes sense. ---on 10/4 @ 19:33 writes: How would this affect them as far as building wounds? Many that i spoke to were concerned about this ---on 10/4 @ 20:44 writes: It would make them have to build wounds exactly the same as Pureblade and Blademaster, without being able to stack on 2x the wounds, damage, and afflictions with no curing in between. Which is the main problem, here. ---on 10/13 @ 04:21 writes: Knockdown blocks stancing, right? So they'd still be able to build wounds, they just wouldn't have the 'double-tap' that there is now that eliminates all curing whatsoever. ---on 10/13 @ 22:06 writes: You cannot stance when prone, that is correct. ---on 10/15 @ 14:59 writes: Agree, but I don't think we need to nerf this hard or we'll just tip the scales too far to the BM/PB side. The stun can be replaced with something other than an effect that only prevents standing. For BC I'd suggest replacing the stun with bal loss. Since they already have wind it wouldn't mess things up much for Necromancers (Wind is a 3s balance loss that stacks slightly with itself; knockdown would be a 2 second balance loss that doesn't stack at all with itself). AL, on the other hand, don't already have access to a bal loss wound, so I'd suggest a 1 second stun + disrupt (which takes 2 seconds to concentrate from). That'd leave them with the same 3 seconds of hindering without the double tap, and also opens up possibilites of using ringingears confusion to prevent concentrate and that sort of thing. ---on 10/17 @ 12:42 writes: Problem with a 2s balance loss is that it would be instantly reapplicable, unless you're intending to suggest some sort of "balance loss immunity"? Without that, it would almost as debilitating as stun, but in a slightly different way. I don't really like the concept of adding more "immunities" though, really. It seems like we could end up heading towards everything having a cool down period. I do think that the problem raised here needs addressing, but I'm not a fan of the way it's being done (although I can't think of something more suitable). I guess, in lieu of something else, a stand block would be ok. ---on 10/17 @ 17:28 writes: No, knockdown won't fire if you're already prone